When you’ve created a great landing page, you expect it to generate leads, but so often, that’s not the case. Good-looking landing pages are like good-looking people; they attract visitors and create conversation, but the problem is that if there’s no value or depth to that conversation interest quickly dries up, and everyone goes their own way.
In this episode, Simon continues his interview with our special guest George Nemtzov. Together, they dissect the elements of a killer landing page and look at what makes pages that really convert. Get ready to transform your landing pages from sorry-looking poster pages to lead-generating machines.
To help you create quality websites that convert, download the free storytelling website wireframe, which includes storytelling structure and techniques we discuss in our episodes, here (or copy and paste the link below):
Join marketing experts Simon Harvey and Daniel Kleber on Authentic Marketing, the weekly podcast that provides proven marketing tips to improve your marketing efforts and help your business grow.
Subscribe to our weekly episodes dropping every Thursday on your favourite podcast platforms like Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other.
Book a consultation with our Authentic Engagement coaches to help you navigate through the jungle of the business world: demodia.com/sales-marketing-review
Demodia Instagram: instagram.com/demodia_digital
Demodia LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/demodia
When you've created a great landing page, you expect it to generate leads, but so often that's not the case. Good looking landing pages are like good looking people. They attract visitors and create conversations, but the problem is that when there's no purpose or depth to that conversation, It quickly dries up and everyone just politely goes their own way. Last week I had the opportunity to talk with George Nemtsov and we learned how a few simple changes to the way that you communicate your offer can make a significant difference to the number of conversions that your pages create. In today's episode we continue that conversation and look at best practices for A B testing, capturing consent. And a few other simple technical changes that you can make to your web pages that will significantly increase the number of leads that you generate. So join us as we show you how to turn your website into a powerful customer acquisition tool. Let's start the show. So thinking about landing pages, I typically tend to see two sorts of landing pages. One would be, maybe you describe something like a product page or something like that, where people are coming in more from search or maybe from some sort of social advert inside there. And yes, they want to learn about what your product is, what your offering is, whatever in there. And they're prepared to sort of read through that sort of thing. The other sort of landing page. It's again, you may be coming through from a social advert or from maybe from some sort of PPC, Google AdWords advert, something like that, where it has offered you something very specific. So maybe, you know, you're clicking on a link to go through to register for a webinar or you're clicking on a link to download a report or, you know, the call to action previously has been very specific in there. Yeah. So you mentioned earlier. you know, the amount of content doesn't really matter, you know, you provide as much as you need in there. Does that vary based on the sort of thing you're offering? So if I'm just offering a webinar in there, should I just keep it very short to the purpose, this is what the webinar is, and then form inside there? Or again, should I explain more? Is the sort of pros or cons of different things there? Oh, yeah,George:
you should give them the overview for sure. Because, you know, remember, the brain is in this mode. Okay. I landed somewhere. And like, is this interesting for me? Should I explore further? So, uh, you should give them some overview because of that. Not just overview. I mean, the overall look and feel of the page, let's say, should scream value. You know, so visual attractiveness, let's say, is very important. That's how people start talking with each other, you know, I mean, they just, uh, they gravitate towards people who are visually attractive to them, you know, same thing with pages. Yep. And, um, let's not forget this component of the page, but as far as the copy goes, yeah, again, give them some bullet points, some summary. The main values for them, but somewhere below you can go in details because you know, the second thing that the brain, let's say does is okay, but I'm not so sure. So I want to read further to see if this is really what I want. It looks like it's what I want, what I need. Uh, but I'm not 100 percent sure, you know, so I want to read more. Let's say if it's a webinar, I want to read more about the people who are leading the webinar, for example, like are they worth listening to? Or something like that. What's their experience, qualification, whatever boosts this confidence that, yeah, okay, there's value forSimon:
me. Yeah. Yeah. I like your analogy a minute ago about your landing page is like meeting a person, basically. It's like meeting somebody at a bar or whatever. The look is the thing that attracts you in the first place that says, okay, yeah, let's have a conversation. And then the conversation decides whether or not it's going to go any further. And I think it's exactly the same with the landingGeorge:
page. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And this brings me to a point, which is again, one of our central points when we talk to clients or when we design pages, we put it like this, uh, listen, you're not building marketing pages. You're building a relationship. Like forget that it's online and it's kind of mediated through machines and things like that. Forget about all the technology because all interpersonal relationship dynamic apply. Like all of them, seriously, like all of them. From the first impression to the role of being authentic and not being deceitful, for example. You know, all of this and somehow people forget very often that, you know, it's like, Oh no, no, no, no. This is not really a relationship. I'm just putting something there and everything goes like I can trick them, for example, into believing something that it's not true. For example, I can afford not being authentic and it doesn't matter how the page looks like, you know, like, like, come on, like, would you go outside in a social setting in the physical world and be like, it doesn't matter how I'm dressed. Yeah. It doesn't matter how I look like. Um, yeah, probably not. So yeah, this is a major, major thing. People just forget that there are other human beings standing on the other side of a screen.Simon:
Yep. No, very true. Very true. Yeah. So. Landing pages, we've talked a bit about. The other element of a landing page is a form, which we sort of briefly discussed earlier on. I mean, again, any best practices in regards to how people set up forms. So I mean, I see some forms that are literally just an email address in there. I see others where they've got a minimal set of information, you know, first name, last name, company, maybe telephone number or something. And on the other hand, I see some forms that, you know, I think, Jesus, I'm filling out a passport application form here just before I can even download this report. Um, any best practices there as to, you know, how many fields make sense? Um, other ways of collecting data potentially, if you need to have some of those bits of data, any thoughts on that? Oh,George:
yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, again, yeah, two sides of that. First line is it's very hard to give general advice because a lot of things are specific. Like if you have built such a strong desire, you know, if I want these things so badly, I'm going to feel whatever form you give me, as long as I have the data, you know, um, but you're crossing a line here. If you're asking for data that the person might not know. Yeah. Okay. Let's say there's like one persona who is landing on the page, filling in the form, but you asking some information that this persona, this kind of position in a company, you know, doesn't have access to this data. So they have to pick the phone or send an email, you know, ask somebody else for this thing. Let's say you want some data, you know, for the company, you know, but the person doesn't know it. This definitely crosses a line. Um, so there's one thing, you know, which is a subject of this return on investment calculation. If again, if the return is perceived to be so high, yeah, okay. It the form is, but on the other hand, there is some general advice or best practice, which can be dispersed here. And yeah, if you have any other alternative ways to collect this information, please use it. The information is out there. You can get so much about the company. You can judge if this is a. Qualified lead on not just by the email, for example. Definitely they should use this. And I think that's it. Like, think if we have alternative ways to gather this information, don't burden the user with it. And especially don't burden them with asking for information that they might not know. They might not have easy access to in B2B pages. We see this quite often.Simon:
You mentioned emails and things. There are email addresses in there. Do you see any benefits or pros and cons of requesting a business email address versus, you know, one of these free email addresses? I see some forms saying you can't register with a Gmail address. I mean, is that a good thing or a bad thing? I mean, obviously for the company, it's a good thing. But does it affect the rates of people subscribing?George:
Of course it does. I mean, the question is, is that a bad thing or not? It's like, why would you shy away from providing your work email address? They should try to find out what the reason for this is. If someone is just trying to research them, you know, let's say it's a competitor. Um, yeah, well then they haven't lost anything, but if there's some other reason, like, what could it be? I don't know. I, for example, I'm afraid of spam. Yeah. I don't want spam on my work email address. Yeah. So. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there are ways how they could go about trying to understand that, let's say, it's not so easy.Simon:
But again, I guess it's back down to how you position yourself authentically as the company inside there and say, you know, we'll be very clear, we give you a checkbox to opt out of marketing inside there, we won't use this email address for other than for communicating with you about this offer, potentially, and make that clear in your actual copy that you're providing. That's aGeorge:
great idea. Because you know, preemptively, somehow you're mitigating this like this is the reason that they might not. Yep. Fill in their work address. Yeah, absolutely. That's a great idea.Simon:
Yeah. I think we've, we've talked about most of the bits that I've got on my general questions at the moment. I mean, any other bits that you've got? Actually, one of the things you mentioned, A B testing, that was the other thing that we haven't talked about at all in here. So benefits, pros and cons, how to go about A B testing.George:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, oh, that's a very tricky, sometimes even a sensitive topic. Well, I don't remember who said it. Uh, Some scientist. Oh my God, he was actually famous. You know, like research is what I do when I don't know what I'm doing. Um, but this should not be the case with A B testing. Like, you should know very well what you are trying to find out when you A B test. You should not just like blindly, let's say, test two versions of the page or like, um, let's say, for example, if you test, should the form be above the fold or below the fold and you create two versions of the page and you don't change anything, like this is exactly the same content. So there's like five paragraphs of text, you know, let's say, uh, standing right next to the form invariant A and invariant B, this huge chunk of text is above the form. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if the test results make you believe that having the form above the fold right next to the five paragraphs is better, which is not going to teach you anything. Actually, you're not going to find out anything new. You know, let's say so. Um, for example, what's worth testing is things like which content is more effective. Let's say you have a hero image and you compare it with a video. Okay. For example. But then you have to be sure that the video is good, you know, because the test results might tell you that actually the image is better. You know, and you just suck at making videos about your product, for example, I mean, generally about how to conduct the test is like you test one thing and it should be big enough. So there's a significant difference between how the two variants perform. And then honestly, interpreting the analyzing the results is the most important part of the testing. Uh huh. Yeah. like designing the tests and analyzing the results. That's the real challenge. And you can't design it without knowing how to analyze it. Honestly, I have seen so many A B tests, which, which are not designed correctly. People don't really know what they're testing. And the results are kind of random. Let's say it's super tricky. I would say avoid it. Yeah, I would say avoid it. It's probablySimon:
not what goes against the grain, but no, but that's true enough. I mean, a lot of the people that we do business, you know, we work with and that listen to this podcast. I think a small business owners. They're not large companies that maybe necessarily have, um, massive amounts of expertise in particular areas or people that specialize in these sorts of things. So it's about giving them the value that, that they're going to get out the fastest, and if avoiding A B testing because they don't know what they're doing with it and they're not going to get back any results is actually the right thing to be doing, then fairGeorge:
enough. Yeah, I mean, I've seen way more often people being confused by it than actually being beneficial. Yeah,Simon:
before we completely move off there, the one thing that I know people do tend to A B test is calls to action, you know, CTAs in there. Yeah, because Best practices on, you know, things to put into CTAs or placement for CTAs, just as a general rule?George:
Um, well, generally I like to see as many CTAs on a page as possible. Let's say the page is... You know, it's linear layout, it's a one column layout, it's a linear structure, and let's say you have a product showcase video at the top, uh, you might have some key benefits like three by the book. You might have some testimonials, well, uh, wait a second, wait a second. depending on how big the video is, you can put the CTA below the video, you can put CTA below the key benefits, you can put the CTA below the testimonials, below examples, every section which is large enough so you basically don't see. Two of the same type of CTAs on one screen that it's already justifies a CTA, the CTA, meaning this is your main conversion event. This is what you want them to do. Yeah. Um, and you can have like 10, I don't know. And then another very nice kind of best practice, which is generally enough that kind of works in most cases where there's. enough content. Um, you can put the same CTA pointing to the same link, uh, but it has different format, you know, it has different modality. Sometimes it might be a text link within a text. It might be a text alternative link, like below a button, below a main CTA or something like that. Then next time it can be a button. Then it can be some image or some icon or something like that. And you can like spray it around the page in different modalities. So this also increases the chance of conversion because like people are in different stage in the process throughout the page. Let's say some get convinced very early, some not, some get convinced by some other type of content, you know, some late. They want to know as much as possible about you before they convert. And yeah, just give them the chance, you know, it should be, uh. One little mouse move or whatever, uh, finger move away. Yeah.Simon:
Yep. Cool. Okay. I mean, anything else that you think people should know that we haven't talked about at the moment?George:
Um, there's this best practice, you know, like don't put the main menu on the landing pages, especially for campaign landing pages. Okay, yeah. Because you don't want them to navigate away from the page. Yeah. Generally, if they do navigate away from the page, maybe the conversion decreases, but it's not so simple. I mean, maybe they're going to come back to you. You know, at a later stage, maybe they don't need the thing right now, but because they researched you, uh, let's say, because this is one of the main reasons why you should keep a menu, you know, a main top nav menu. That's in the cases where you're not a very strong, very established brand, let's say, and people are uncertain. And, uh, they do want to research you, but then the only thing they see, you know, is your domain, the domain name, the site, and then they see a page and there's like, there's no about, for example, but I want to know more about this, like, who's behind this thing? Let's say maybe it's a PDF with some best practices about how to optimize landing pages. Yeah, yeah. Very good ones I have. Yeah. You want the email address and obviously a lead gen form. And, um, but they're like, okay, wait a second. Who are these people? Like, what have they done? You know? Why should their PDF be worth me giving my email address? And if this page is not a part of the website and it has the same navigational structure, you know, they can't go and research you. And yeah, and that's a problem. On the other hand, if you are a very established brand and you're very well known, trusted. Yeah, then the effect of you removing the menu is like, you know, it's, uh,Simon:
keeps people focused basically.George:
And yeah, yeah. Then, then it's a positive effect. Absolutely. Absolutely. So it really depends for example. I mean, probably one of the main key takeaways is, yeah, there are. Tons of best practices. You can easily find them on the internet, but it all depends on your context. So some of them might work. Others might have a negative effect.Simon:
I like that as a sort of a conclusion almost inside here. There's best practices that you can follow everywhere, but at the end of the day, it's what works best for yourGeorge:
business. Exactly. Yeah, another thing, for example, another thing, which kind of it's supporting argument to this point is Especially in the initial conversations people really want to know. Oh, yeah, what kind of section should I add and then you look at the pages? Okay, there are no testimonials or there are no FAQs Okay, let's take testimonials and they say yeah, but we either don't have good testimonials or Like, by the way, it's in our case. Um, you know, we're not allowed to use them because we have some really restrictive NDA. And, okay, we can use it, for example, but we cannot give the full names and the name of the company because, you know, it's a very well known company, let's say. And, yeah, we have some NDA from which we are, like, really afraid of. We don't want their lawyers coming after us. But they said some amazing things about us, and we want to put them on the website. But then if you hide the name and the company, how credible this testimonial is. So this is just another example of, yeah, okay. It's a best practice to put testimonials, but if for some reason you don't have them, you know, Oh, what do you do? You have to use all the other means, so all the content that you have and kind of make the best of it, you know, cool.Simon:
Good. Well, George, I think we're, we're running up to time now. I think it's, it's been great to hear your thoughts and expertise inside there. Uh, so yeah, thanks very much for joining usGeorge:
today. It's a pleasure, you know, to talk about not just your work, but your, your obsession, let's say.Simon:
I'm glad to hear that it is. Yeah. All right. Perfect. Thanks for your time.George:
Oh, you're welcome. It was a pleasure. Definitely.Simon:
I know I said this last week, but thanks once again for spending time with me the other week. It was really great to have you on the show, and I hope that sometime we're gonna get a chance to talk again in the future. What was most interesting to me from today was George's comment on AB testing. You know, this is something that so many small business owners try to do. And absolutely, it's the right thing to be doing in there, but as George said, one thing you need to do is to make sure that the tests that you're running are adding value to you. If you're replacing a generic banner at the top of your page with a video of you explaining why your visitors should complete your form, you can almost expect inevitably that you're going to get better conversion rates, that is unless your video creation skills absolutely suck. But when you're going through doing these other tests, you know, try testing things that you're going to be able to actually extract some real value from test things like, for example, your CTA buttons, test things like the bullet points that you've got in the pages, you know, talk about maybe trying different problems inside there and seeing whether that impact. Try the position of the forms on the page. You know, we talked last week about having forms parallel with the text at the top of your page versus having a form lower down in your page in there. You know, test it out and see what happens. That's a good one to test. And also in your forms, try testing the number of fields that you've got in there. You know, it might make more or less difference what information you ask for or how much information you ask for. You know, these are all sorts of things that you can actually get concrete results out of and actually interpret those results much easier. So, if you're having problems setting up and optimizing your website, then you can hire an authentic engagement coach. Just go to Demodia. com to hire a coach that will show you how to increase the effectiveness of your website and give you an easier way to grow your business. So time again now for you to take action. Each show if you recall I like to give you a set of concrete steps that you can take to help you improve your website and drive business through your sales pipeline. Today we're going to talk about CTAs. Now this might seem like one of the most basic elements of a website but it's something that so many people get wrong. Firstly, What I want you to do is to take another quick visual scan of your website. So I'd recommend taking a look maybe at your home page or a product and service page in there. You know, use those for a starting point. For each of these pages, what I want you to do is count the total number of CTAs that you have inside there and then also I want you to note how many different CTAs you have. So how many of those CTA links go through to different places. So that's the first step. When you've done that, let's take a look at the results. Scanning back through what you've just noted in here. Firstly and most importantly, does every page that you've reviewed have a link to the contact page or your primary CTA in the top right hand corner? We talked about that with Astea a few weeks ago back in episode one of this season, uh, when we were looking at sort of website layouts and website design in there and she said, you know, that's really important. You know, it's where everybody starts. It's where everyone looks. So if you don't have that link, that primary CTA in the top right hand corner of your page, then get it fixed. It's the main thing that people look for when they want to engage with you. The next thing that I want you to look at in here is how many CTAs in total did you have on each page. So by that I mean the total number of CTA links that you had in your page wherever they went off to. If you had less than three CTAs on your page, This is a problem. So you need to pick your primary call to action and you need to repeat that throughout the page. You know, don't feel that you need to only have one CTA in your page. People don't remember things the first time. Repeat your CTA continually throughout your copy. So, for example, if you've got book a meeting, call us. Buy now, start your trial, whatever your primary CTA is, make sure that that is repeated numerous times throughout your page. So I want you to go onto each of your page and the action that I want you to do is to make sure you add at least five direct links to that CTA, that primary CTA button across your site, throughout your site. Finally, what I want you to do is to look at how many different CTAs you've got on your page. So if you recall, I asked you to say how many total CTAs and how many different individual CTAs that linked off to different pages you had on your site. If you've got more than two of those, Or at very most three. Then what you're doing is just confusing your visitors. Choice is a bad thing when it comes to making decisions and making people act. So ideally, each page on your site should only have one primary CTA or direct CTA and one secondary CTA that links to something like a lead magnet. So you're going to have two different links at very most three different things that you're going to link off to from your page. So you don't need links to things like a white paper, three different customer stories, two different blog posts, and your demo. If you had three or more different CTAs linking to different places, then what I want you to do is to go through and choose the two of those that you think are most appropriate and remove all of the others. And if you're going to go with three, then keep it something simple. So you might have your primary CTA. Going off to start your trial. You might have a secondary CTA going off to view the demonstration and then your tertiary CTA May well be something that's just like subscribe to our newsletter something very very simple and basic in there for the third one Almost the catch all option. So I know There's a lot to think about in here and you're going to feel uncomfortable at first removing some of those CTAs. You'll be thinking that you've not given people all the information that they need and that by being choosy you're going to be thinking that you've not given people all the information that you have or that they need. But by being choosy, you're going to be giving them the right information. And that's the most important thing. By giving them the right information at the right time, you're guaranteed to see an increase in your conversions on your landing pages. So that's all for today's episode of the Authentic Marketing Podcast. Thanks once again for listening. And don't forget to bookmark the podcast and share it with your friends and colleagues. We love to share our knowledge so that we can make your business succeed. See you next time!